"Nate-964" (Nate-964)
04/06/2015 at 17:50 • Filed to: None
8
17|
"Nate-964" (Nate-964)
04/06/2015 at 17:50 • Filed to: None | 8
| 17 |
My goal is to write this review with minimal bias, but I do love this car so I apologize in advance. Additionally, I read Chris Perkin's excellent review of his father's 1987 Carrera 3.2 heavily to help jog my brain a bit. Here is a little back story to the car.
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I bought this car in August of 2013, after months of searching for a 911. I was living in NYC after graduation (2010) and was moving back to Cleveland in the summer of 2013. A year before I moved back (summer 2012), I decided I was going to purchase an old car when I finally would come back to Cleveland. I always liked Porsche since I was a kid, but I was by no means an enthusiast for the marque (I blame this on my blind following of whatever Jeremy Clarkson said). I was looking at 60s Mustangs, C2 Sting Rays and E46 M3s as my primary options. However, two things happened that got me into Porsches: 1) I saw Urban Outlaw and 2) I was taking a taxi to work on the FDR and I heard the rumble of a flat six next me on the highway. I can not explain why these two events got me to look down the path of an air cooled 911, they just did.
My favorite design of the 911 has always been the 64-73 911 and the 964. While I was in NYC, my co-worker and very close friend in the next cube was deeply into cars as well, and he could not understand why I did not want to pursue the 993. I just always preferred the 964.
Before I moved back, I saw a red 1990 964 with ~29,000 miles listed for sale just outside of Cleveland. I moved back, saw the car and decided that was the one. I had to wait two months before I got my bonus, and by some miracle the car did not sell while I was waiting. I bought the car by the end of summer 2013. As an FYI, I also test drove an 1987 Carrera 3.2 and 2005 997 Carrera 2S.
From the factory, the car came with only two options, fully-powered drivers seat and lumbar support. A previous owner installed Billy Boat exhaust with long tube headers, twin mufflers and big polished exhaust tips. This past summer I had the car fitted with new H&R front and rear sway bar kit, Bilstein Sport Rear Shocks, Bilstein Sport Struts, H&R Spring Set and 17 inch Cup 1 Wheels. The car currently has driven 34,500 miles. I have the original wheels, exhaust, bumper fitting and suspension components at my parents garage.
Exterior: 9/10
The design of the 964 is one of my favorites. To me, the silhouette of the 964 is simple yet beautiful. With the right set up, these cars look truly outstanding. The 964 is the last classic model to sport the classic 911 profile. Many claimed the 964 was the ugly ducking of the 911 family due to the large polycarbonate front and rear bumpers, but to my eyes, it ranks among the prettiest of 911s. Interesting fact according to Total 911, the 964 was actually more aerodynamically efficient than the 993.
Interior: 6/10
The relatively minimalistic dash of all old 911s is an important trait to me. I love the old style gauges with the bright the red/orange dials. It really reminds me that this car was from an era in which driver focus was the highest importance. I am dinging the interior for two reasons. 1) In my opinion, the 964 has the unfortunate blessing of having the ugliest steering wheel to leave the factory in Stuttgart 2) I would prefer to have black leather.
However, I am pleased with other important characteristics of the interior. The seats hold me in place during spirited driving, yet remain comfortable during longer drives. Whenever I get into a modern car, I am always reminded of the amazing visibility that the 964 offers due to the thin A-pillars. While the interior is somewhat small, I never feel claustrophobic. And finally, I love closing the doors on this car. The doors are so tight and solid and close with a "chink" that I love hearing every time.
Acceleration: 8/10
The 964 Carrera 2 has 247HP from its 3.6L flat six with a weight of 3,031 lbs. This car is not what I would classify as "very fast" but is fast enough for me to have a lot of fun in. From a dead stop, the car lacks a little bit in low end torque, but above 2,500 RPM, the acceleration is fast enough to produce a large grin while not getting me into too much trouble. Additionally, the car pulls exceptionally well out of corners. This car is very fun to drive on public roads. Importantly, I am able to get a lot out of the car during spirited drives, while not breaking the speed limit too much.
Braking: 7/10
The 964 was the first 911 to have ABS. Even in spirited driving, I rarely got on the brakes hard. However, during an autocross event last spring, the car stopped very well and did not experience break fade throughout the day.
Ride: 6/10
The ride can definitely be a bit harsh. Part of this is due to the set up that I had completed recently, but even in stock form the ride was a bit harsh. However, I would not classify the ride as unbearable, just a bit harsh. Additionally, Cleveland has not done the best job with keeping its roads in great condition. I mainly avoid city streets for this reason.
Handling: 9/10
The somewhat harsh ride is very much worth it for the exceptional handling of this car. The car's handling exceeded my expectations, even in stock form. With the new set up, the car corners very flat and provides incredible feedback. This is the best handling car I have ever driven.
The steering is "power-assisted" and provides loads of feedback. The steering is very communicative and provides the perfect balance of weight during spirited driving while being more usable than non-power steering when I am driving around town.
I feel very comfortable pushing the car in very curvy back roads. During autocross, I felt very comfortable with the car's capabilities. I have never had a moment in which I felt as if I would lose the car. Though, this probably speaks more to my lack of truly pushing the car to the limit. I particularly enjoy how the front of the car feels as if it is hopping slightly, yet overall the car feels very planted (apologies for the low quality photo below).
Gearbox: 7/10
The gearbox of the 964 C2 is actually an updated version of the G-50 launched in 1987. The lever feels a tad too heavy for my taste, but ultimately it is very easy to operate and feels very crisp slotting into gear. The clutch is heavy when driving in stop-and-go traffic.
Usability: 6/10
My 964 is definitely useable as a daily driver. However, the after market exhaust makes the car a bit too loud for everyday use. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the noise the car makes, but after long drives, it sometimes can be a bit too much. In fact, I think I blew the front speakers due to playing the music loud enough so as to hear it over the exhaust, and I am not a loud music person. Other than the noise and somewhat harsh ride, the car has a great balance of being raw enough for any car enthusiast, but useable enough to not be annoying.
The back seats were able to fit my girlfriend (5'3 and ~110LBS) for a short drive, but is better suited for smaller kids. The front trunk is a bit small, but fitted everything that I needed during a recent short road trip in the fall.
Character: 9/10
In my opinion, this car oozes character. I understand that the 911 is one of the most common luxury sports cars, but I rarely see other air cooled 911s on the road. Since I have owned my car, I have only seen a handful of other 964s on the road, and that was leaving/during Porsche events.
For such a serious car, this car has tons of personality. It is loud, visceral, beautiful, benefits from hand built quality (the 964 is the last of the hand built 911s), relatively fast and absolutely engaging to drive. With modern cars getting larger and ultimately less engaging to drive, the 964 is truly a spectacular combination feeling relatively modern while retaining the classic charm and character that made many fall in love with the 911 in the first place.
Collectability: 8/10
Air cooled 911s have exploded in value in the past two years. I have a feeling that air cooled 911s will experience a slow down in price acceleration, but I do not think prices will fall drastically. According to Rob Sass, VP of Content at Hagerty, the increasing value of air cooled 911s is largely due to these cars being under appreciated and greatly underpriced for so long versus rampant price/market speculation.
Ultimately, I think this is a relatively rare car that has been the underdog of 911s for too long. I think the 964 is finally getting its day in the sun.
Score: 75 / 100
Engine: 3.6 litre horizontally-opposed flat six
Power: 247 HP at 6,100 RPM / 228 LB-FT at 4,800 RPM
Transmission: 5 speed manual
0-60 Time: 5.5 Seconds
Top Speed: 162 MPH
Drivetrain: Rear wheel drive
Curb weight: 3,031 LBs
Seating: 2+2
MPG: City/Highway/Combined fuel economy for the US C2 is 16/25/19 (Manual)
JR1
> Nate-964
04/06/2015 at 18:35 |
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First off I wanted to say great review! The 964 911 occupies an interesting spot in Porsches history. Right before the first modern 911. Yet the 964 is modern enough to be considered luxurious to some extent even today.
Now I just have to say it that gearshift is an ugly little duckling.
Jonee
> JR1
04/06/2015 at 18:54 |
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I don't want to mention what that gearshift looks like. Yikes.
Terrific review, I agree.
Frank Grimes
> Jonee
04/06/2015 at 19:01 |
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you said it better than I could have.
BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Nate-964
04/06/2015 at 19:03 |
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I have to agree with you.
the smooth finish of the modern bumpers on a 964 are the cleanest thing since the classic long-hood.
The G-model and ensuing 74-88 Impact-bumper cars with lots of black plastic filler trim on the bumper beams is not as clean looking as the body-color 964, or the classic chrome and body-color of the long-hood cars.
993 almost stretched the modernization too-far. The pieces don't look bad, but the effect of the new headlights, and the re-shaped rear fenders, and tail panel depart more from the classic profile than 964 does.
There is a reason that Singer uses 964 shells to back-date to classic long-hood looks... they are the newest body that can do so, with the newest suspension and brakes to fit that body. 993 can't back-date with it's revised body-shell.
The only bit I don't like about the 964 is that the bulbous rear bumper sticks out a bit much, draws the eye down too far. A re-fit of a 73 Carrera RS bumper without the trim pieces, and just black over-riders would tidy the rear end up nicely... especially on such a low car anyway... if there is any car-to-car contact, it is going to be well above the bumper, most likely... and significant body/chassis damage will likely be inevitable. It might as well be gorgeous while it is un-damaged.
Great review. Thanks for posting it... and that is a very nice car.
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> JR1
04/06/2015 at 19:09 |
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That depends on whether you ascribe the 993 air-cooled car as the first "modern" 911, or whether you ascribe modernity to the re-designed, re-engineered water-cooled 996 as the first thoroughly modern 911.
993 did have some upgrades over previous generations, but a significant portion of the car, including the interior, was still directly related to all the 911s that came before 993.
996 was in many ways a clean-sheet re-design.
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Nate-964
> JR1
04/06/2015 at 19:38 |
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I agree...the shift knob is not attractive...they could have done a lot better.
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Nate-964
> Jonee
04/06/2015 at 19:38 |
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thanks!
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Nate-964
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
04/06/2015 at 19:43 |
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I like your view point. I think the 964 represented a leap forward in terms of performance, handling (cool over suspension), everyday conveniences (i.e, proper HVAC layout, power assisted steering, ABS), but still retaining the original charm.
To me, the 996 represents a completely new car. I think the air cooled 911 has evolved from 1964 through the 993. With the 996 came a completely new car. I view it in the same sense of the Mini. The car evolved consistently from 1959 to 2000...then in 2001 came a completely new car.
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Nate-964
04/06/2015 at 19:48 |
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Yes, and no.
996 is a clean-sheet re-design.
But it still has visual cues, and the sleek profile, and one of the few rear-engined cars on the market.
There was a much bigger gap between the tech of the old Austin/Morris Mini, and the BMW-produced modern Mini. The VW Beetle is completely different between old and new.
996 was a totally new car... but it was also still faithful to what makes a 911 a 911. It can't be said that a 996, 997, or 991 are anything BUT an evolution of what 911 is. It may be getting more toward a GT coupe than a classic sports car... but that is also an evolution... 911 was more of a road car and every-day driver than a 904 Carrera GTS back in the day, too.
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Nate-964
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
04/06/2015 at 19:50 |
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Those are extremely good points...
Chris Perkins
> Nate-964
04/06/2015 at 21:30 |
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Lovely car and great review! Yeah it's damn hard to write anything about these without just blabbing on about how they're the greatest thing in the world.
Suddenly you wonder why every car isn't rear-engined.
bee1000
> Nate-964
04/06/2015 at 21:57 |
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Love the alternating vacuuming stripes. Spend some time watching /Drive Clean on YouTube, perhaps?
Nauraushaun
> Nate-964
04/07/2015 at 07:25 |
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Great review. My Z32 300ZX has a very very similar wheel. Compared to the lithe bagless wheel on my previous Z it's pretty ugly. I think early airbag wheels were pretty much afterthoughts.
You mention you've never felt you'd lose the car. Have you driven it in the wet? The Z is a front engine and not so powerful, but in the wet it can quite easily outdo itself. I can imagine the Porsche being quite a handful if driven with gusto. Not the case?
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Nate-964
> Chris Perkins
04/07/2015 at 09:33 |
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Chris, thanks for the note and writing the great review on the 1987 Carrera 3.2. Your review definitely helped a lot as I was think of this...
BTW...I would be forever great full if this somehow got posted to Jalopnik : )
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Nate-964
> Nauraushaun
04/07/2015 at 10:11 |
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Thanks for the comment. Early 90's airbag steering wheels are horrible. However, I think I will keep it for safety. Additionally, I drove the car on a 3.5 hour road trip this fall in which it was down pouring. The car felt very composed, however I also had brand new tired when that happened. I also don't push the car in the rain and tend to drive extra careful. Also, I think me not loosing the car has a lot to do with me not having the capabilities to drive the car near its capabilities.
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Nate-964
> bee1000
04/07/2015 at 10:13 |
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haha thanks. The interior pictures are from the day I gt the car...I should have noted that in the review. I keep the interior clean, but not as clean as those pictures
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Nauraushaun
> Nate-964
04/08/2015 at 00:18 |
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Yeah I'm keeping mine too. I can only imagine the shame of swapping out the airbag wheel due to aesthetics, then getting injured in a crash due to not having an airbag...It's not like cars from 20 years ago are particularly safe.
I see, fair enough. I do hope it doesn't catch you off-guard one day though, the reputations of the earlier 911s is vicious.